New Shun 1730
Chapter 1210: All good things, no bad things (Part 2)
The prince had never learned about contradictions and dialectics, so he naturally couldn't understand that after the old contradictions were eliminated, new contradictions would arise. It doesn't mean that there will be no contradictions after the old contradictions are resolved.
So after hearing Liu Yu's nonsense judgment of "only benefits, no disadvantages", he thought about it and felt that it seemed very reasonable.
Just the idea of letting cash crops and raw materials enter the inland and let the people focus on the basics made the prince feel a little enlightened.
Although the prince had little contact with Liu Yu and did not have close contacts, he had heard a lot of comments about Liu Yu.
Such ideas, no matter how you listen to them, seem to be different from Liu Yu's usual ideas.
According to Dashun's insinuation, it has always been said that Liu Yu learned Guan Yiwu's tyranny. Now he actually came up with the rhetoric of "focusing on the basics", which made the prince quite puzzled.
"The Duke's argument makes a lot of sense. However, in the past, Sang Hongyang quoted the argument of Guanzi, saying: If the palace is not decorated, the wood will be inexhaustible; if the kitchen is not filled, the life of the animals will not be shortened. Without the profit of the end, the main business will not be produced; without the brocade, the women's work will not be used."
"He also said: Farmers and merchants trade to benefit the end. Living in the mountains and swamps, weeds and weeds, money flows and is evenly distributed. Therefore, those with more do not thrive alone, and those with less do not starve alone. If each Living in that place and eating that food, oranges and grapefruits will not be sold, salt from Qulu will not be exported, and carpets will not be sold, and the materials from Wu and Tang will not be used. "
"This is all about the benefits of trade. If there is no trade, places that produce oranges can only eat oranges, and places that do not produce oranges cannot eat oranges even if they want to. The same is true for other things such as salt, bamboo, and blankets. "
"I have always heard that the Duke of Xingguo values the skills of Guan Yiwu and Sang Hongyang. However, today I heard the Duke say The words, especially the word "focus on the basics", seem wrong. "
"The virtuous and good literature says: men abandon the basics and focus on the end, carving patterns and engravings to resemble animals, and exploring the changes of things, then the grain is not enough to eat. Women decorate and make fine articles, and use the most skills, then silk cloth is not enough to wear. Cooks kill and slaughter eggs, fry and roast, and use the most five flavors, then fish and meat are not enough to eat. In today's world, it is not that animals are not damaged, and wood is not enough, but that there is no limit to extravagance; it is not that there is no tent, orange, or grapefruit, but that there is no hut. "
"It seems that the virtuous and good literature supports the basics, and does not let men stop farming and go to textiles, industry, and commerce, etc. The Duke talked about "focusing on the basics"... To be honest, it really surprised me. "
Liu Yu thought to himself that I neither supported Sang Hongyang nor Guan Zhong, but if you insist on thinking this way, it can be regarded as a character that those people in the court have set up for me in recent years, which is convenient for them to insinuate.
But if you say I stand on the side of the virtuous and literati, I have to say it.
"Your Highness has misunderstood. The principles of that time are still applicable now; but the methods derived from these principles at that time may not be applicable now."
"Killing the enemy to eliminate the threat is a principle. And raising warriors and enfeoffing chariot soldiers were the methods at that time. And the current method is to recruit infantry and train firearms. They are all implementing the principle of killing the enemy to eliminate the threat."
"During the Han Dynasty, the world was so big that there were no more than 10 million households and no more than 50 million people."
"Even with ox-drawn plows, iron tools, plows, ridge cultivation, and moisture conservation and fallow, a small farmer's The limit is 120 mu of land. "
"Therefore, the virtuous and literati at that time could say what they understood as the basics. One more person farming means one more production."
"Because, indeed, one more person farming means one more production."
"Nowadays, the world's population is several times that of the past."
"For the same 120 mu of land, is there any difference in output between one household and ten households?"
The prince seemed to understand and replied: "If we only talk about output, there seems to be no difference."
Liu Yu nodded, thinking that if we only talk about output, there seems to be no difference. But if we talk about the amount of commercial grain, the difference is huge. Farmers have to eat their fill first, and then they can sell the grain as a commodity.
For the same 120 mu of land, the commercial grain left over by one household is different from the commercial grain left over by ten households.
However, there is no need to discuss this issue with the prince at this time. Liu Yu said: "Then let's talk about 'focusing on the basics'. Focusing on the basics at that time could increase production, right? Now 'focusing on the basics' cannot increase production."
"So, if you must understand the truth of the virtuous literature, what you need to do now is to migrate a large number of people to Kanto, Nanyang, Fuso and other places to make them focus on the basics and increase production - if you must find some truth for the things that the virtuous literature said. Of course, in fact, they don't have such a reason in their minds."
"When there is a lot of land and a small population. Let people live on the ground and focus on the basics, which is to increase production."
"When there are a lot of people and a small amount of land, it is also to increase production to migrate people to the new continent. . "
"If we assume that the virtuous and virtuous scholars had the concept of increasing production in their minds, and they insisted on flattering it by saying that their thinking was aimed at increasing production. Then, the truth is right, but the methods used in the past to practice this truth may not be still applicable now. "
"If you have to use it, it's called carving a boat to find a sword. "
"The doctor Sang Hongyang said, 'Now the bamboo of Wu and Yue, the wood of Sui and Tang, are inexhaustible, but Cao, Wei, Liang, and Song collect coffins and turn corpses; the fish of Jiang and Lake, the bream of Lai and Huang, are inexhaustible, but Zou, Lu, Zhou, and Han eat quinoa and vegetables. The benefits of heaven and earth are all sufficient, and the goods of mountains and seas are all rich; but the people are in poverty, the money is insufficient, the amount is not balanced, and the wealth of the world is not dispersed.'"
"Railways and shipping are the ultimate solutions. It's not that I want to emphasize industry and commerce, so the bamboo from Wuyue can fly to Caowei; the black carp from Laizhou can be eaten by the people of Zou and Lu. Logistics and transportation also require costs."
"Once the railway is built, this problem can be solved. At the very least, the capital can eat oranges from Hankou, and well-off families can also eat them. This must be no problem, right?"
"Before, even the coal from the west of Beijing was only a few dozen miles away from the capital, and ordinary people still couldn't afford it."
"Sang Hongyang pointed out the necessity of trade, but he couldn't solve the logistics problem at the time. Now building roads and promoting shipping, It provides the basis for trade. "
"What I mean by "focusing on the basics" is another matter. It means that through the dumping of large amounts of cotton from outside, the local cotton-growing industry is eliminated, making it unprofitable for local people to grow cotton and having to grow grain. And growing grain means that the form of collecting rent and lending at high interest rates will continue."
"And continuing to collect rent and lend at high interest rates will allow foreign goods to flow into the local area, so that the landlords have to increase the rent in order to maintain their original lives. This will force the tenants to accept migration. After migration, this is called...focusing on the basics."
"The essence of focusing on the basics is to increase production. Xianliang Literature may believe that trade It will not increase production, so if we must say that they understand economics, this is the only way to understand the principle of focusing on the basics. "
"Moving the people here to places with fewer people and more land will increase production? Then, how can we say that this is not focusing on the basics?"
"In addition, there is another understanding of focusing on the basics."
"Local grains are grown in various forms, so grain prices are low and grain is plentiful. The court uses the method of equal distribution to collect local grain with money from the south of the Yangtze River."
"Using work instead of relief, during the slack season, more water conservancy and road projects are built."
"Increasing the wealth that each citizen can create, dams, canals, irrigation canals, roads, etc. are all wealth in the macro sense. This is also a kind of focusing on the basics."
"As for the 'focusing on the basics' mentioned by the conservative officials in the court, that is just the form, but not the meaning; knowing the fact, but not the reason. They think that the form of growing grain is the basics..."
"Since they insist on thinking so, then this can also be regarded as focusing on the basics. In short, anyone can understand this as focusing on the basics at this time. Doesn't that mean there are only benefits and no disadvantages?"
"Those who stand on the side of Sang Hongyang and Guan Yiwu think this is a great benefit. The oranges from Hubei can indeed be sold to the capital."
"Those who stand on the side of virtuous and literati will also think this is a great benefit."
"In this case, there are benefits and no disadvantages."
The prince could obviously hear that Liu Yu had a position.
However, Liu Yu stood on the opposite side without hiding his position. In addition to mocking, he also elaborated on the arguments that were equally beneficial from the perspective of the opposite side.
Since the emperor asked the prince to listen to his "reasons", he thought carefully about the contents and asked, "Father said before that we should learn from the advanced skills of the barbarians. The advanced skills of the barbarians were mostly compiled by the Duke, and they were explained by the economic means of the pre-Qin and Han dynasties. At most, it can be traced back to the comparison between the Yongle Emperor sending the eunuch Sanbao to the West to monopolize the benefits of spices and the Dutch East India Company."
"Just now I heard the Duke say that he wanted to dump cotton yarn and cotton... Is it true that the Duke's "focusing on the basics" is actually worried about the occurrence of something similar to the barbarians' enclosure movement?"
"If cotton is expensive, the tenants will be driven away, and the land will be taken to grow cotton, which will make a lot of money. It will cause millions of tenants to become refugees and cause chaos in the Central Plains?"
"Does the Duke's "focusing on the basics" mean this?"
There are many people in the court who have read these things.
However, the person responsible for compiling these things is Liu Yu.
He has his own standpoint and his own three views, so he will not go in the direction of "nationality", "ordinary and great temperament", "superiority of religion", "superiority of culture" and other nonsense.
Instead, he uses his three views in a very standard way, connects with many theories of the pre-Qin and Han dynasties, and explains things from a material perspective.
When the prince asked about the enclosure movement, Liu Yu just smiled and shook his head.
"Your Highness, you are worrying too much. This will never happen. I didn't mean this when I said to focus on the basics."
The prince emphasized: "Impossible?"
"Impossible! What I meant by focusing on the basics has nothing to do with this."
"Since we are learning from foreigners, the enclosure movement is nothing more than three things."
"First, determine the land rights, the distinction between public and private land; the land collectively owned by the village community is allocated to private occupation. These things have been done since the Qin and Han Dynasties, and then to the Song Dynasty. There is no collective land of the village community in this dynasty. When I was carrying out the salt administration reform in Songsu, I did encounter clan grass rafting, at least they insisted that it was theirs, but that was the best, basically there was no such thing. So much public land."
"Secondly, raise sheep and sell wool for textile use. Our dynasty has conquered Southeast Asia, Ceylon, and Guandong. Cotton, flax, etc. are all available. Why do we need to enclose land in the local area to provide raw materials for industry and commerce? Or grow grain and sell it to cities with developed industry and commerce, but the problem is that rice from Southeast Asia and wheat from Liaodong have made people cry and shout that the low grain prices hurt farmers."
"Third, cheap labor is necessary to promote industry and commerce. If our dynasty does not enclose land, there will be more than one million refugees a year. Is there a lack of labor for industry and commerce? I changed the Songsu Reform. Just the change of the trade route has left at least 200,000 Lingnan porters unemployed. In the Wuling Xijiang area alone, there are no less than 200,000 or 300,000 refugee-like cheap laborers. Is there a shortage?"
"Since there is no advantage to learn from these three items. Then, on the other hand, cotton from Southeast Asia and India is extremely cheap, and cotton planting in the Central Plains is unprofitable, so what is the point of enclosing land to plant cotton?"
"If it is to grow grain to sell, the most prosperous industrial and commercial areas need a lot of grain, but rice from Southeast Asia, wheat from Liaodong, and even rice from Korea are cheaper than grain from Henan. Even if they are the same price, they are still cheaper with the freight... Then enclosing land to plant grain is not profitable. Grain must be sold to make money."
"In addition to food, cotton, flax and other things that are consumed in large quantities, what else can be worth large-scale enclosure that affects tens of millions of people?"
"Besides, the land rent is high, there is also the pressure of usury, and the tenants can be driven like serfs. What is there to grow? Can the profit be greater than this?"
"If we say that the only place in this dynasty that is similar to the enclosure movement is the Huainan Grassland. But it only achieves two of the three purposes. The enclosure in Huainan is to clarify property rights and privatize state-owned grasslands; it is to grow cotton, which is more profitable. But it is not to create cheap migrant labor to enter the city."
"So, the enclosure of the three purposes is only achieved two, which is the most similar. It must be the wasteland of northern Jiangsu Grassland with favorable time and place."
"As long as the court allows raw cotton, cotton yarn, grain, oil, etc. to flow into Henan and Jianghan, there is no need to worry about enclosure. It is impossible."
"I am not worried about enclosure at all. Enclosure is what made the original five households toss. With three hundred mu of land, only one family is left to work. The rest can go to work. The merger of this dynasty is to make the one hundred mu of land that originally belonged to five families belong to one family, and the rest are tenants who pay rent. These tenants want to work, want to be contracted long-term workers to cultivate overseas, but they can't. "
"Your Highness is worried about enclosure, and he is worried that the tenants will be unemployed and become refugees. I dare to guarantee that this will never happen in the Central Plains within 30 years, because there is nothing to grow that can make a profit higher than collecting rent. The only possibility is perhaps to grow flue-cured tobacco? But this thing can only be done in one or two counties near the railway, at most, it's not a big problem. "
"What needs to be solved is the merger problem... This matter may be solved, or it may not be solved, or it is unwilling to be solved. In this case , then building roads is also beneficial. "
"If there is a famine, we can provide relief, help, appease, suppress, deliver grain, build roads and dig rivers for relief."
"Or, if the court really wants to save the country for a long time, it will gather money and strength, concentrate its strength, and emigrate overseas."
"Or, believe that the development of industry and commerce can accommodate half of the population. Everything is aimed at industrialization, during which time we can appease the people, equalize their land, and reduce the rent of landlords, which is enough to survive until the transformation is completed."
"Your Highness, you know that some places in Jiangnan miss the Hongwu period of the previous dynasty. It is said that at that time, the rent for renting official land was 40%. Now some people miss that time and even miss the good governance and the protection of the people."
Some of these things are actually very simple truths.
Just like the tenacious vitality of Dashun's native cloth, Liu Yu didn't think the domestic market could be that big. The root cause is that labor is so cheap that even if the labor can buy five more kilograms of rice by spinning cotton into yarn and weaving it into cloth, someone will do it, because otherwise the labor is idle and cannot even exchange for five kilograms of rice.
If water conservancy and road construction can provide rice, this is of course the right way. At the very least, roads and water conservancy projects are wealth and also improve productivity.
If the court can spend money to migrate a large number of people to the border and overseas in a planned, purposeful and executive manner, it will also improve productivity and release the limit productivity of each small farmer.
In this era, most people in the practical school tend to the latter.
Because the former is a helpless choice after missing the Age of Discovery and all the good places outside are occupied by others.
The set of values accepted by the practical school of Dashun can be calculated: the productivity increased by immigration is huge. If you can plant a hundred acres but have no land to plant, you can only plant three acres. Throwing it to a place where you can plant a hundred acres is equivalent to a thirty-fold increase in productivity.
Except for a few people like Liu Yu, most of the people in the practical school supported the equal distribution of land for very radical reasons.
The reason they supported the equal distribution of land was that they wanted to get rid of the landlords as middlemen, learn from the British, and implement the May Day agricultural tax, raise the agricultural tax rate to 20%, use more than one billion mu of land, and earn an agricultural tax surplus of 100 million taels a year, and spend the 100 million taels of agricultural tax revenue on shipbuilding and immigration.
It took thirty years to move hundreds of millions of people to fill the sunny places on the earth whose size had been determined, and go back to the path of feudal colonization in the Western Zhou Dynasty, with the Central Plains as the Zhou emperor, and use the first-mover advantage of the Central Plains to develop industry, turning the "feudal reclamation" areas into supporting parts of the economic system.
Similar to the paper of Korea, the rice of Japan, the indigo of Java, and the cotton of India, they were controlled by Guan Zhong's light and heavy currency techniques, and had to come to the court.
But obviously, if this was done, Dashun would explode, and the Li family would most likely die. The small number that survived might be the other princes of the Li family who restored the old regime and cleared the court with armed forces.
This is the "Wang Mang Reform" that the emperor is worried about.
If he doesn't do it, he will most likely die. That is the cosmic sorrow that Liu Yu cried before.
This is also the "dynasty reincarnation" that the emperor is worried about.
Not doing radical reforms and maintaining the status quo does not mean doing nothing. On the contrary, something must be done.
Today, the prince came to Liu Yu to discuss the railway with great fanfare, and the emperor asked the prince to talk. In Liu Yu's opinion, the emperor's attitude is still very clear.
The emperor wanted to leave an inheritance to the prince, but he would not let the prince follow Liu Yu's method. Instead, he hoped that the prince would listen to Liu Yu's opinion. If there was no way out in the future, he might choose another way.
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